Wealth Management

The Alts Report

Hear from industry innovators across Morgan Stanley Wealth Management leadership and fund manager partners as they discuss the trends and opportunities shaping the alternative investments landscape.
Latest Episode

Innovation in Alternatives Vehicles

E3 • March 16, 2026 • 8 mins

Brian Holzer, Head of Alternative Investments Sales & Distribution, sits down with Alisa Wood, Partner at KKR, to discuss what’s driving the rapid growth in private markets, how evergreen and registered structures are reshaping access, and key considerations for portfolio construction – including why alternatives are often approached with a longer investment horizon.

00;00;00;14 - 00;00;22;20

Brian

Welcome to The Alts Report, where we explore the value of alternative investment and the trends shaping today's markets today. We are onsite at KKR Global Headquarters, and I'm pleased to have Alisa Wood, a partner at KKR, join us. Over the past decade, private markets asset under management has more than tripled, currently in the range of 18 to 20 trillion.

00;00;22;22 - 00;00;44;05

Brian

Now, most of that growth has been fueled by institutional investors. But with recent product innovation and access to alternatives improving, we've already started to see this dynamic shift and greater adoption from individual investors.

00;00;44;06 - 00;00;57;23

Brian

So, Alisa, thanks for being with us today. I appreciate you having to state your office. So maybe to start, I mentioned my opening. We've seen tremendous growth right, in alternative investments over the past decade. What's been driving that expansion and where do you think the industry is heading from here?

00;00;58;00 - 00;01;24;03

Alisa

Sure. And thanks for having me. I think it's actually pretty simple. I think what we've seen is a few different factors, some macro, some asset allocation related, and some just in terms of where capital is appreciating. You know, first and foremost, we've seen the correlation between asset classes fundamentally shift in the last decade. We've also seen a compression and started to see a compression of returns in certain asset classes, depending on different vintage years in different cycles.

00;01;24;03 - 00;01;43;00

Alisa

So early adopters into private equity and private investments realized probably 30 or 40 years ago that if you put that in an asset allocation, it winds up being as a hedge or an uncorrelated or less correlated return stream, than public equities or fixed income or things of that nature. And I think that is playing true more today than ever.

00;01;43;03 - 00;02;06;23

Alisa

I think the second piece of it is, is that companies are staying private longer, right? So they're 40% fewer public companies today. If you look at 20, 25 years ago versus today, companies, you know, back then took probably four years to go public. Today it's probably three times that. So if you want to access, you know that entire remit of different assets in different companies, you can't just invest in the public space.

00;02;07;00 - 00;02;26;06

Alisa

And then the final piece of it is, is we're seeing the public markets really be driven by a lot of AI and technology. Nothing wrong with that. But if you think about what different firms are investing in in the private space, you're actually getting a very different industry. You know, exposure, which and by the way, exposure at a different size as well.

00;02;26;07 - 00;02;34;08

Alisa

Right. When you think about where private investing is typically happening, it really does give that full diversification. So I think that's honestly what we're seeing today.

00;02;34;11 - 00;02;51;13

Brian

So let's talk a little bit about product structure right. So innovation and product structure such as semi liquid vehicles right. They've made alternatives more accessible to a broader audience. What do you think has been the most impactful developments. How have they changed the way investors use alternatives?

00;02;51;14 - 00;03;09;26

Alisa

Sure I think it's really simple actually. You know, in 50 years we've not seen the evolution of closed end funds, right. The way those, you know, pools of capital have been operating, it's literally been the same nothing in financial services and stayed the same in 50 years. Right. So this was ripe for innovation and ripe for evolution.

00;03;09;29 - 00;03;35;23

Alisa

But I don't think it's a revolution. I think it's an evolution. Right. And when you think about it, all that's happened is the inefficiencies and some of the frictional pain points, depending on the size of the client that you are, have come out of, come out of that structure. Right. So a closed end fund, you manage the operational complexity as the end investor. In an open end fund and an evergreen fund, the manager actually owns and operates that operational complexity.

00;03;35;24 - 00;04;05;00

Alisa

That's the fundamental difference. So whether it's J curve mitigation, capital call management, optimizing for you know, a higher velocity of compounding, better diversification, all of that are the benefits of of this, you know, I would say new evolved structure. It's exciting. I think it's actually creating more opportunity for folks who maybe didn't have that, that stomach for the operational complexity to actually lean in and and get that opportunity to get those same type of less correlated returns.

00;04;05;01 - 00;04;20;18

Brian

So as we've seen, the number of funds grow, right? The money flowing into them continues to grow. What should investors be considering in your mind? What will allow certain ones to stand the test of time where maybe others you need to make sure you close attention?

00;04;20;18 - 00;04;36;14

Alisa

So I think it's really simple actually. I think to be a good closed end fund investor, what do you have to be good at? You gotta be good at one thing. You got to invest well. And by the way, I don't want to downplay that. That's really hard to do. Okay, that's a high bar, but that's all you really have to do.

00;04;36;16 - 00;04;59;11

Alisa

As a, as an open end or an evergreen structure that's table stakes. Being a good investor is the basic, you know, thing that gets you in the room, but you then have to be really good at two other things, and you've got to be good at managing operational complexity, liquidity, cash management, hedging, monthly valuations. All of that takes lots of resources that if you're not going to make that investment, you can potentially get really tripped up on.

00;04;59;13 - 00;05;19;00

Alisa

And then the final piece, which I think this is probably the least understood, is do you actually have enough investment flow to feed these vehicles? Right. Like you're taking capital in on a monthly basis? It may be linear. It may not be linear. You've got to manage the ability to have redemptions on in many cases quarterly basis. Like it's complicated.

00;05;19;03 - 00;05;37;22

Alisa

Right. And so can you manage that complexity and can you actually feed it in the right way and make sure you're feeding it with, you know, the things that will generate the return versus, you know, low hanging fruit that may be less attractive. That I think is what good looks like. Now, I think that we're going to see play out in the next however many years.

00;05;37;22 - 00;05;49;27

Alisa

I think there are a lot of evergreens that have been, created over the last few years. I don't think all of them have a right to win. I don't think all of them will be successful. And I think it's really going to come down to how do you rank them on those three metrics?

00;05;50;04 - 00;06;07;24

Brian

So let's close with portfolio construction or incorporating alternatives into portfolios. What are the key considerations for implementation? How should investors think about position sizing? How should they think about liquidity management and really just overall portfolio construction around alternatives?

00;06;07;24 - 00;06;29;06

Alisa

Sure. I know it's a great point. I think at the end of the day, you got to start out with the understanding of what what should good look like if you're investing in privates or private equity. The answer is you should be able to – and this is just basic benchmarking – you should be able to deliver 500 plus basis points in some cases top quartile 500 to 700 basis points above the public markets.

00;06;29;06 - 00;06;48;29

Alisa

Now, the beauty of private equity is in periods of dislocation it's double to triple that. Right. And that's the power of this. Now how can you do that? You do that because this is all about long term capital appreciation. This is not about the quick flip right. And I think that's how you think about the liquidity management piece of it.

00;06;49;05 - 00;07;05;17

Alisa

We like to say that if you're not going to hold an evergreen for at least five years, you shouldn't invest in it right. Now that's different than a closed end, you know, fund investment that might be 10 or 12 years long. And part of it is you can pull forward the maturity of the portfolio because of that structure and compound at a higher rate.

00;07;05;17 - 00;07;16;17

Alisa

That is really exciting and interesting, but you've got to think about it in terms of long term capital appreciation. So when you set your your allocation to what you want it to be, that's the framework that you've got to think about it.

00;07;16;17 - 00;07;24;06

Brian

And I think that I think that's a great point. Right. Even though these evergreen funds offer liquidity, if you need it, you should still think about it with a much longer time horizon.

00;07;24;11 - 00;07;39;17

Alisa

Absolutely. I mean, we say this all the time, this is not a mutual fund, right? And when you think about the liquidity, the liquidity is there in case you need it. Right? The liquidity is there. So you can decide when you want to invest and when you want to redeem. Like that's one of the biggest differences in the structure.

00;07;39;23 - 00;07;56;26

Alisa

And by the way, it does give access to a whole different group of investors who wouldn't typically have been able to access closed end structures. And by the way, that's all good. But you've got to have this long term mindset, right? Because if you don't, I think you're materially going to impair the ability you're going to have to generate those returns.

00;07;56;28 - 00;08;13;06

Brian

Great, Alyssa. Thank you. Appreciate you having us. And thank you to all of you for joining this edition of the Arts Report. To learn more about Alternative Investments and our platform at Morgan Stanley, please visit ms.com/alts or reach out to your Morgan Stanley Financial Advisor or Private Wealth Advisor. We look forward to seeing you next time.

 

Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC ("Morgan Stanley Wealth Management") - IMPORTANT DISCLOSURES

 

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management acts as a placement agent in connection with the offering and sale of the securities of the fund to current and prospective clients of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management will receive cash compensation for its activities as placement agent from the fund’s manager, as described in Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s point of sale letter, if applicable. In addition, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, its affiliates or employees, may have additional relationships with the fund’s manager, including as an investor in the fund or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager or as a client of the fund’s manager. The payment of cash compensation to Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, and any additional relationships that Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates may have with the fund’s manager or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager, create material conflicts of interest for Morgan Stanley Wealth Management in its role as placement agent.

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice and are not intended to be a forecast of future events or results. Further, opinions expressed herein may differ from the opinions expressed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and/or other businesses/affiliates of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management.

Alternative investments often are speculative and include a high degree of risk. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Alternative investments are appropriate only for eligible, long-term investors who are willing to forgo liquidity and put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time. They may be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Alternative Investments typically have higher fees than traditional investments. Investors should carefully review and consider potential risks before investing.

The sole purpose of this material is to inform, and it in no way is intended to be an offer or solicitation to purchase or sell any security, other investment or service, or to attract any funds or deposits.  Investments mentioned may not be appropriate for all clients. Any product discussed herein may be purchased only after a client has carefully reviewed the offering memorandum and executed the subscription documents. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management has not considered the actual or desired investment objectives, goals, guidelines, or factual circumstances of any investor in any fund(s). Before making any investment, each investor should carefully consider the risks associated with the investment, as discussed in the applicable offering memorandum, and make a determination based upon their own particular circumstances, that the investment is consistent with their investment objectives and risk tolerance.

As a diversified global financial services firm, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management engages in a broad spectrum of activities including financial advisory services, investment management activities, sponsoring and managing private investment funds, engaging in broker-dealer transactions and principal securities, commodities and foreign exchange transactions, research publication, and other activities. In the ordinary course of its business, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management therefore engages in activities where Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s interests may conflict with the interests of its clients, including the private investment funds it manages. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management can give no assurance that conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of its clients or any such fund.

Alternative investments involve complex tax structures, tax inefficient investing, and delays in distributing important tax information. Individual funds have specific risks related to their investment programs that will vary from fund to fund. Clients should consult their own tax and legal advisors as Morgan Stanley Wealth Management does not provide tax or legal advice.

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a business of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC.

© 2026 Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC. Member SIPC. Alternative investment securities discussed herein are not covered by the protections provided by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, unless such securities are registered under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and are held in a Morgan Stanley Wealth Management Individual Retirement Account.

CRC 5257816 03/2026

Transcript

00;00;00;14 - 00;00;22;20

Brian

Welcome to The Alts Report, where we explore the value of alternative investment and the trends shaping today's markets today. We are onsite at KKR Global Headquarters, and I'm pleased to have Alisa Wood, a partner at KKR, join us. Over the past decade, private markets asset under management has more than tripled, currently in the range of 18 to 20 trillion.

00;00;22;22 - 00;00;44;05

Brian

Now, most of that growth has been fueled by institutional investors. But with recent product innovation and access to alternatives improving, we've already started to see this dynamic shift and greater adoption from individual investors.

00;00;44;06 - 00;00;57;23

Brian

So, Alisa, thanks for being with us today. I appreciate you having to state your office. So maybe to start, I mentioned my opening. We've seen tremendous growth right, in alternative investments over the past decade. What's been driving that expansion and where do you think the industry is heading from here?

00;00;58;00 - 00;01;24;03

Alisa

Sure. And thanks for having me. I think it's actually pretty simple. I think what we've seen is a few different factors, some macro, some asset allocation related, and some just in terms of where capital is appreciating. You know, first and foremost, we've seen the correlation between asset classes fundamentally shift in the last decade. We've also seen a compression and started to see a compression of returns in certain asset classes, depending on different vintage years in different cycles.

00;01;24;03 - 00;01;43;00

Alisa

So early adopters into private equity and private investments realized probably 30 or 40 years ago that if you put that in an asset allocation, it winds up being as a hedge or an uncorrelated or less correlated return stream, than public equities or fixed income or things of that nature. And I think that is playing true more today than ever.

00;01;43;03 - 00;02;06;23

Alisa

I think the second piece of it is, is that companies are staying private longer, right? So they're 40% fewer public companies today. If you look at 20, 25 years ago versus today, companies, you know, back then took probably four years to go public. Today it's probably three times that. So if you want to access, you know that entire remit of different assets in different companies, you can't just invest in the public space.

00;02;07;00 - 00;02;26;06

Alisa

And then the final piece of it is, is we're seeing the public markets really be driven by a lot of AI and technology. Nothing wrong with that. But if you think about what different firms are investing in in the private space, you're actually getting a very different industry. You know, exposure, which and by the way, exposure at a different size as well.

00;02;26;07 - 00;02;34;08

Alisa

Right. When you think about where private investing is typically happening, it really does give that full diversification. So I think that's honestly what we're seeing today.

00;02;34;11 - 00;02;51;13

Brian

So let's talk a little bit about product structure right. So innovation and product structure such as semi liquid vehicles right. They've made alternatives more accessible to a broader audience. What do you think has been the most impactful developments. How have they changed the way investors use alternatives?

00;02;51;14 - 00;03;09;26

Alisa

Sure I think it's really simple actually. You know, in 50 years we've not seen the evolution of closed end funds, right. The way those, you know, pools of capital have been operating, it's literally been the same nothing in financial services and stayed the same in 50 years. Right. So this was ripe for innovation and ripe for evolution.

00;03;09;29 - 00;03;35;23

Alisa

But I don't think it's a revolution. I think it's an evolution. Right. And when you think about it, all that's happened is the inefficiencies and some of the frictional pain points, depending on the size of the client that you are, have come out of, come out of that structure. Right. So a closed end fund, you manage the operational complexity as the end investor. In an open end fund and an evergreen fund, the manager actually owns and operates that operational complexity.

00;03;35;24 - 00;04;05;00

Alisa

That's the fundamental difference. So whether it's J curve mitigation, capital call management, optimizing for you know, a higher velocity of compounding, better diversification, all of that are the benefits of of this, you know, I would say new evolved structure. It's exciting. I think it's actually creating more opportunity for folks who maybe didn't have that, that stomach for the operational complexity to actually lean in and and get that opportunity to get those same type of less correlated returns.

00;04;05;01 - 00;04;20;18

Brian

So as we've seen, the number of funds grow, right? The money flowing into them continues to grow. What should investors be considering in your mind? What will allow certain ones to stand the test of time where maybe others you need to make sure you close attention?

00;04;20;18 - 00;04;36;14

Alisa

So I think it's really simple actually. I think to be a good closed end fund investor, what do you have to be good at? You gotta be good at one thing. You got to invest well. And by the way, I don't want to downplay that. That's really hard to do. Okay, that's a high bar, but that's all you really have to do.

00;04;36;16 - 00;04;59;11

Alisa

As a, as an open end or an evergreen structure that's table stakes. Being a good investor is the basic, you know, thing that gets you in the room, but you then have to be really good at two other things, and you've got to be good at managing operational complexity, liquidity, cash management, hedging, monthly valuations. All of that takes lots of resources that if you're not going to make that investment, you can potentially get really tripped up on.

00;04;59;13 - 00;05;19;00

Alisa

And then the final piece, which I think this is probably the least understood, is do you actually have enough investment flow to feed these vehicles? Right. Like you're taking capital in on a monthly basis? It may be linear. It may not be linear. You've got to manage the ability to have redemptions on in many cases quarterly basis. Like it's complicated.

00;05;19;03 - 00;05;37;22

Alisa

Right. And so can you manage that complexity and can you actually feed it in the right way and make sure you're feeding it with, you know, the things that will generate the return versus, you know, low hanging fruit that may be less attractive. That I think is what good looks like. Now, I think that we're going to see play out in the next however many years.

00;05;37;22 - 00;05;49;27

Alisa

I think there are a lot of evergreens that have been, created over the last few years. I don't think all of them have a right to win. I don't think all of them will be successful. And I think it's really going to come down to how do you rank them on those three metrics?

00;05;50;04 - 00;06;07;24

Brian

So let's close with portfolio construction or incorporating alternatives into portfolios. What are the key considerations for implementation? How should investors think about position sizing? How should they think about liquidity management and really just overall portfolio construction around alternatives?

00;06;07;24 - 00;06;29;06

Alisa

Sure. I know it's a great point. I think at the end of the day, you got to start out with the understanding of what what should good look like if you're investing in privates or private equity. The answer is you should be able to – and this is just basic benchmarking – you should be able to deliver 500 plus basis points in some cases top quartile 500 to 700 basis points above the public markets.

00;06;29;06 - 00;06;48;29

Alisa

Now, the beauty of private equity is in periods of dislocation it's double to triple that. Right. And that's the power of this. Now how can you do that? You do that because this is all about long term capital appreciation. This is not about the quick flip right. And I think that's how you think about the liquidity management piece of it.

00;06;49;05 - 00;07;05;17

Alisa

We like to say that if you're not going to hold an evergreen for at least five years, you shouldn't invest in it right. Now that's different than a closed end, you know, fund investment that might be 10 or 12 years long. And part of it is you can pull forward the maturity of the portfolio because of that structure and compound at a higher rate.

00;07;05;17 - 00;07;16;17

Alisa

That is really exciting and interesting, but you've got to think about it in terms of long term capital appreciation. So when you set your your allocation to what you want it to be, that's the framework that you've got to think about it.

00;07;16;17 - 00;07;24;06

Brian

And I think that I think that's a great point. Right. Even though these evergreen funds offer liquidity, if you need it, you should still think about it with a much longer time horizon.

00;07;24;11 - 00;07;39;17

Alisa

Absolutely. I mean, we say this all the time, this is not a mutual fund, right? And when you think about the liquidity, the liquidity is there in case you need it. Right? The liquidity is there. So you can decide when you want to invest and when you want to redeem. Like that's one of the biggest differences in the structure.

00;07;39;23 - 00;07;56;26

Alisa

And by the way, it does give access to a whole different group of investors who wouldn't typically have been able to access closed end structures. And by the way, that's all good. But you've got to have this long term mindset, right? Because if you don't, I think you're materially going to impair the ability you're going to have to generate those returns.

00;07;56;28 - 00;08;13;06

Brian

Great, Alyssa. Thank you. Appreciate you having us. And thank you to all of you for joining this edition of the Arts Report. To learn more about Alternative Investments and our platform at Morgan Stanley, please visit ms.com/alts or reach out to your Morgan Stanley Financial Advisor or Private Wealth Advisor. We look forward to seeing you next time.

 

Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC ("Morgan Stanley Wealth Management") - IMPORTANT DISCLOSURES

 

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management acts as a placement agent in connection with the offering and sale of the securities of the fund to current and prospective clients of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management will receive cash compensation for its activities as placement agent from the fund’s manager, as described in Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s point of sale letter, if applicable. In addition, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, its affiliates or employees, may have additional relationships with the fund’s manager, including as an investor in the fund or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager or as a client of the fund’s manager. The payment of cash compensation to Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, and any additional relationships that Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates may have with the fund’s manager or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager, create material conflicts of interest for Morgan Stanley Wealth Management in its role as placement agent.

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice and are not intended to be a forecast of future events or results. Further, opinions expressed herein may differ from the opinions expressed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and/or other businesses/affiliates of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management.

Alternative investments often are speculative and include a high degree of risk. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Alternative investments are appropriate only for eligible, long-term investors who are willing to forgo liquidity and put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time. They may be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Alternative Investments typically have higher fees than traditional investments. Investors should carefully review and consider potential risks before investing.

The sole purpose of this material is to inform, and it in no way is intended to be an offer or solicitation to purchase or sell any security, other investment or service, or to attract any funds or deposits.  Investments mentioned may not be appropriate for all clients. Any product discussed herein may be purchased only after a client has carefully reviewed the offering memorandum and executed the subscription documents. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management has not considered the actual or desired investment objectives, goals, guidelines, or factual circumstances of any investor in any fund(s). Before making any investment, each investor should carefully consider the risks associated with the investment, as discussed in the applicable offering memorandum, and make a determination based upon their own particular circumstances, that the investment is consistent with their investment objectives and risk tolerance.

As a diversified global financial services firm, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management engages in a broad spectrum of activities including financial advisory services, investment management activities, sponsoring and managing private investment funds, engaging in broker-dealer transactions and principal securities, commodities and foreign exchange transactions, research publication, and other activities. In the ordinary course of its business, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management therefore engages in activities where Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s interests may conflict with the interests of its clients, including the private investment funds it manages. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management can give no assurance that conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of its clients or any such fund.

Alternative investments involve complex tax structures, tax inefficient investing, and delays in distributing important tax information. Individual funds have specific risks related to their investment programs that will vary from fund to fund. Clients should consult their own tax and legal advisors as Morgan Stanley Wealth Management does not provide tax or legal advice.

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a business of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC.

© 2026 Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC. Member SIPC. Alternative investment securities discussed herein are not covered by the protections provided by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, unless such securities are registered under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and are held in a Morgan Stanley Wealth Management Individual Retirement Account.

CRC 5257816 03/2026

Previous Episode

Beyond the Game: Value Creation in Alternatives

E2 • February 10, 2026 • 9 mins

From the field to the portfolio. Michael Gaviser, Head of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s Private Markets & Portfolio Solutions, sits down with Michael Arougheti, CEO of Ares Management, to explore how sports investing extends beyond team ownership, alongside opportunities in real estate and infrastructure – and how investors are gaining access.

01;00;17;10 - 01;00;42;25

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Welcome to the Altes Report, where we explore the value of alternative investments and the trends in the marketplace. Happy to be here in Vail, Colorado at the Morgan Stanley Are's due Diligence day, with Mike Arougheti, who's the CEO and founder of Ares. Mike, you've had so many different experiences across the landscape, whether it's private credit, private equity, sports, real estate, really a privilege for all of us to be able to spend some time talking about different market segments.

01;00;42;25 - 01;00;45;23

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And your thoughts on the market in general

01;00;45;25 - 01;00;51;14

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Great to be here, and thanks for the support. It's amazing to see all the advisors here engaging with us on the value of private market investing.

01;00;51;16 - 01;01;13;13

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

If we talk about the market, Mike, you know, we've seen studies that suggest that, you know, this is a $30 trillion market for individuals by 2030. We've seen lots of adoption in portfolios in generally across the individual market, over the last several years into alternatives. Can you give us a sense of what you think's driving that market and why we're seeing that shift?

01;01;13;15 - 01;01;58;15

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Probably to think about it through two lenses. One is access and we're talking about access it's really about what is the investable market opportunity that's available to institution and institutional and, wealth clients. And it's interesting because private markets have been taking market share from the public markets pretty consistently for the last 30 years. And I think that's a function of the evolution of the capital available to support growth in the private markets and some of the structural constraints that exist in the public markets in terms of a lack of flexibility in structure or lack of accommodation for smaller companies and issuers and borrowers that have pushed people into the private market.

01;01;58;15 - 01;02;25;01

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But they've had a really positive experience there, and the market has figured out how to keep them private longer. You could see that just in the shrinking number of public companies over time. You can see it in the increasing concentration of market cap in the public companies, and the public markets over time in the traded credit markets, you could see it in the average issuer size and the expansion of those markets to accommodate only the largest.

01;02;25;01 - 01;02;43;14

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So there's been this big secular trend to growth in private. But when I talk about access, the challenge has always been the individual investor has not had the benefit of accessing those asset opportunities. For for years, it was the purview just of the large institutional.

01;02;43;19 - 01;02;56;02

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And do you feel like it's the opportunity for return and performance and diversification? They've always been there. But maybe the structures that would allow individuals to engage haven't actually been set up yet. And that's one of the big changes.

01;02;56;02 - 01;03;30;02

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Yeah So I think it's structure education both for the individual investor and the advisor and technology. And I think those three things have kind of converged at the same time to promote better access. And I think now with the products that we have, whether it's monthly or quarterly liquidity, while we still recommend that folks don't view these as traded, having a path to liquidity to the extent you need it for personal reasons or for portfolio reconstruction, I think was a real value unlock -

01;03;30;02 - 01;03;31;20

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Sure-

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

- from a structural standpoint.

01;03;31;20 - 01;03;54;12

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

So shifting or drilling down a little bit more, you know, we're in a little bit different world, right rates have normalized. We're not at zero rates anymore. Then obviously real estate sensitive to that. We've also had Covid and we had office vacancies and we've had big building in multifamily. There's a lot of things going on, like how do you look at real estate today from an opportunity perspective, and what are your thoughts?

01;03;54;15 - 01;04;24;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

I think you have to always think about the real estate market between secular trends and cyclical trends. Cyclically, the entry point for real estate is very well set up. You've had an under build in the major food groups of multifamily and industrial. So we're coming into the current environment with an undersupply. You've seen a drawdown in real estate values generally across the board putting office to the side down 18 to 20%.

01;04;24;20 - 01;04;48;15

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So you've kind of bottomed out. And now we're getting into a constructive rate environment, which over time will get us to a constructive cap rate environment. And you should see transaction activity pick up cyclically. Generally speaking, when we see that bottoming and we've seen it in past cycles, you tend to pick up 400 basis points or so of incremental return on the index.

01;04;48;18 - 01;05;16;07

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So being being thoughtful about your entry point in real estate is a way to drive outperformance. But what's also happening is you're having major secular tailwinds in the real asset market, where global supply chains are reorganizing…

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And as people start building things…

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

…reshoring, near shoring, friend shoring, people are building redundancies. And that's creating a lot of demand for industrial real estate.

01;05;16;11 - 01;05;43;27

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

You're seeing increased e-commerce penetration that's creating a secular demand for warehouses. You're seeing the proliferation of digital infra and data centers off of the industrial backbone. You have an aging population, that is changing the way that they live. You've got people who are now dealing with affordability in the housing market that are looking at the rental market as a viable alternative.

01;05;43;27 - 01;05;54;00

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So you have also a lot of really interesting secular tailwinds that are promoting demand in the real estate market at a time when the cyclical uptick feels like it's well underway.

01;05;54;00 - 01;06;10;12

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

So that all makes a lot of sense. So maybe if we pivot we've talked a lot about, with sports in the past and the opportunities in sports and, and I think the thing that most of us know the most about is buying a team and owning the equity of the team.

01;06;10;14 - 01;06;23;07

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Do you feel like there's more to the sports, kind of ecosystem than simply just owning a franchise? Is there other stuff going on that investors can, you know, gain return from? And how do you think about that landscape?

01;06;23;10 - 01;06;58;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

We were very intentional about the way that we set up our sports practice, which was to call it sports, media and entertainment. There's a lot that happens around teams and leagues, from an asset and investment opportunity perspective, that could probably take a $3 trillion teams and league market and five X it. So things like sports equipment and sports gear, ticketing platforms in stadium hospitality, around stadium real estate developments, in stadium, out of stadium…

01;06;58;20 - 01;06;59;08

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Everything out side of the game.

01;06;59;09 - 01;07;30;03

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Advertising youth sports as a pipeline to professional sports, college sports is now investable talent agencies so so on and so forth. So yes, the teams in the leagues are kind of at the center of the value creation, because those are the ones that create the sticky customer base. They're the ones that create the brand and the IP, and they're the ones that drive the increasing value in the unscripted content that pulls everybody up with them.

01;07;30;07 - 01;07;40;22

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But if all you do is focus on equity investments in teams, you're missing this entire world of of investment that that opens up to you.

01;07;40;23 - 01;07;48;16

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

What is it about this market that there's so much growth behind it, when we don't really have that many different teams than we had 30 or 40 years ago?

01;07;48;23 - 01;08;14;05

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

The underpinning of growth is media rights. That is generally least in the major sports leagues. That is ultimately what is going to drive valuation back to media and entertainment. There's been a transformational shift in the media landscape from wired cable to over-the-top and streaming that's changing the way people are consuming content and the way that people are valuing content.

01;08;14;07 - 01;08;40;11

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But if you look at the length of the media, deals are getting signed by global sports leagues and the value the underpinnings are there to support continued valuation increase. Just on what we see today. And I actually look at spending patterns and the consumer is actually shifting spending to experiences versus things. And that's sports and that's concerts and that's live events.

01;08;40;18 - 01;09;02;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

And so there's something happening there too that's detached from media, that's just behavioral that I think is, you know, fueling some of this. And then look in sports and it's funny because in sports you have people who are anxious about 10 to 15% compound annual growth. There's scarcity value. Right. There's just a limited number. To your point, they don't trade very often.

01;09;02;22 - 01;09;28;08

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

They are in some cases stores of value. Right. Detached from the growth in revenue that comes from media, their stores, a value of the same way that you have gold, silver, crypto where people view it as a store of value, that. So there's something that's happening in team valuations over time too, which is just the scarcity and quality of that asset is also, you know, highly differentiated.

01;09;28;12 - 01;09;44;07

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Mike, thanks for joining us for The Alts Report for a great fun.

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Thanks. Great fun.

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Really enjoyed having you. I think we all learned a lot. And if folks want more information they can go to Morganstanley.com/alts. Or they can reach out to their financial advisor and certainly lots of different opportunities for education, as you mentioned.

01;09;44;07 - 01;09;45;01

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

For sure. Thanks for the support.

 

Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC ("Morgan Stanley Wealth Management") - IMPORTANT DISCLOSURES

 

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management acts as a placement agent in connection with the offering and sale of the securities of the Fund to current and prospective clients of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management will receive cash compensation for its activities as placement agent from the Fund’s manager, as described in Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s point of sale letter, if applicable. In addition, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, its affiliates or employees, may have additional relationships with the Fund’s manager, including as an investor in the Fund or other investment vehicles managed by the Fund’s manager or as a client of the Fund’s manager. The payment of cash compensation to Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, and any additional relationships that Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates may have with the Fund’s manager or other investment vehicles managed by the Fund’s manager, create material conflicts of interest for Morgan Stanley Wealth Management in its role as placement agent.

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice and are not intended to be a forecast of future events or results. Further, opinions expressed herein may differ from the opinions expressed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and/or other businesses/affiliates of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management.

Alternative investments often are speculative and include a high degree of risk. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Alternative investments are appropriate only for eligible, long-term investors who are willing to forgo liquidity and put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time. They may be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Alternative Investments typically have higher fees than traditional investments. Investors should carefully review and consider potential risks before investing.

The sole purpose of this material is to inform, and it in no way is intended to be an offer or solicitation to purchase or sell any security, other investment or service, or to attract any funds or deposits.  Investments mentioned may not be appropriate for all clients. Any product discussed herein may be purchased only after a client has carefully reviewed the offering memorandum and executed the subscription documents. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management has not considered the actual or desired investment objectives, goals, guidelines, or factual circumstances of any investor in any fund(s). Before making any investment, each investor should carefully consider the risks associated with the investment, as discussed in the applicable offering memorandum, and make a determination based upon their own particular circumstances, that the investment is consistent with their investment objectives and risk tolerance.

As a diversified global financial services firm, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management engages in a broad spectrum of activities including financial advisory services, investment management activities, sponsoring and managing private investment funds, engaging in broker-dealer transactions and principal securities, commodities and foreign exchange transactions, research publication, and other activities. In the ordinary course of its business, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management therefore engages in activities where Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s interests may conflict with the interests of its clients, including the private investment funds it manages. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management can give no assurance that conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of its clients or any such fund.

Alternative investments involve complex tax structures, tax inefficient investing, and delays in distributing important tax information. Individual funds have specific risks related to their investment programs that will vary from fund to fund. Clients should consult their own tax and legal advisors as Morgan Stanley Wealth Management does not provide tax or legal advice.

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a business of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC.

© 2026 Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC. Member SIPC. Alternative investment securities discussed herein are not covered by the protections provided by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, unless such securities are registered under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and are held in a Morgan Stanley Wealth Management Individual Retirement Account.

CRC 5173532 02/2026

 

Transcript

01;00;17;10 - 01;00;42;25

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Welcome to the Altes Report, where we explore the value of alternative investments and the trends in the marketplace. Happy to be here in Vail, Colorado at the Morgan Stanley Are's due Diligence day, with Mike Arougheti, who's the CEO and founder of Ares. Mike, you've had so many different experiences across the landscape, whether it's private credit, private equity, sports, real estate, really a privilege for all of us to be able to spend some time talking about different market segments.

01;00;42;25 - 01;00;45;23

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And your thoughts on the market in general

01;00;45;25 - 01;00;51;14

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Great to be here, and thanks for the support. It's amazing to see all the advisors here engaging with us on the value of private market investing.

01;00;51;16 - 01;01;13;13

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

If we talk about the market, Mike, you know, we've seen studies that suggest that, you know, this is a $30 trillion market for individuals by 2030. We've seen lots of adoption in portfolios in generally across the individual market, over the last several years into alternatives. Can you give us a sense of what you think's driving that market and why we're seeing that shift?

01;01;13;15 - 01;01;58;15

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Probably to think about it through two lenses. One is access and we're talking about access it's really about what is the investable market opportunity that's available to institution and institutional and, wealth clients. And it's interesting because private markets have been taking market share from the public markets pretty consistently for the last 30 years. And I think that's a function of the evolution of the capital available to support growth in the private markets and some of the structural constraints that exist in the public markets in terms of a lack of flexibility in structure or lack of accommodation for smaller companies and issuers and borrowers that have pushed people into the private market.

01;01;58;15 - 01;02;25;01

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But they've had a really positive experience there, and the market has figured out how to keep them private longer. You could see that just in the shrinking number of public companies over time. You can see it in the increasing concentration of market cap in the public companies, and the public markets over time in the traded credit markets, you could see it in the average issuer size and the expansion of those markets to accommodate only the largest.

01;02;25;01 - 01;02;43;14

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So there's been this big secular trend to growth in private. But when I talk about access, the challenge has always been the individual investor has not had the benefit of accessing those asset opportunities. For for years, it was the purview just of the large institutional.

01;02;43;19 - 01;02;56;02

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And do you feel like it's the opportunity for return and performance and diversification? They've always been there. But maybe the structures that would allow individuals to engage haven't actually been set up yet. And that's one of the big changes.

01;02;56;02 - 01;03;30;02

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Yeah So I think it's structure education both for the individual investor and the advisor and technology. And I think those three things have kind of converged at the same time to promote better access. And I think now with the products that we have, whether it's monthly or quarterly liquidity, while we still recommend that folks don't view these as traded, having a path to liquidity to the extent you need it for personal reasons or for portfolio reconstruction, I think was a real value unlock -

01;03;30;02 - 01;03;31;20

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Sure-

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

- from a structural standpoint.

01;03;31;20 - 01;03;54;12

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

So shifting or drilling down a little bit more, you know, we're in a little bit different world, right rates have normalized. We're not at zero rates anymore. Then obviously real estate sensitive to that. We've also had Covid and we had office vacancies and we've had big building in multifamily. There's a lot of things going on, like how do you look at real estate today from an opportunity perspective, and what are your thoughts?

01;03;54;15 - 01;04;24;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

I think you have to always think about the real estate market between secular trends and cyclical trends. Cyclically, the entry point for real estate is very well set up. You've had an under build in the major food groups of multifamily and industrial. So we're coming into the current environment with an undersupply. You've seen a drawdown in real estate values generally across the board putting office to the side down 18 to 20%.

01;04;24;20 - 01;04;48;15

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So you've kind of bottomed out. And now we're getting into a constructive rate environment, which over time will get us to a constructive cap rate environment. And you should see transaction activity pick up cyclically. Generally speaking, when we see that bottoming and we've seen it in past cycles, you tend to pick up 400 basis points or so of incremental return on the index.

01;04;48;18 - 01;05;16;07

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So being being thoughtful about your entry point in real estate is a way to drive outperformance. But what's also happening is you're having major secular tailwinds in the real asset market, where global supply chains are reorganizing…

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

And as people start building things…

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

…reshoring, near shoring, friend shoring, people are building redundancies. And that's creating a lot of demand for industrial real estate.

01;05;16;11 - 01;05;43;27

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

You're seeing increased e-commerce penetration that's creating a secular demand for warehouses. You're seeing the proliferation of digital infra and data centers off of the industrial backbone. You have an aging population, that is changing the way that they live. You've got people who are now dealing with affordability in the housing market that are looking at the rental market as a viable alternative.

01;05;43;27 - 01;05;54;00

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

So you have also a lot of really interesting secular tailwinds that are promoting demand in the real estate market at a time when the cyclical uptick feels like it's well underway.

01;05;54;00 - 01;06;10;12

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

So that all makes a lot of sense. So maybe if we pivot we've talked a lot about, with sports in the past and the opportunities in sports and, and I think the thing that most of us know the most about is buying a team and owning the equity of the team.

01;06;10;14 - 01;06;23;07

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Do you feel like there's more to the sports, kind of ecosystem than simply just owning a franchise? Is there other stuff going on that investors can, you know, gain return from? And how do you think about that landscape?

01;06;23;10 - 01;06;58;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

We were very intentional about the way that we set up our sports practice, which was to call it sports, media and entertainment. There's a lot that happens around teams and leagues, from an asset and investment opportunity perspective, that could probably take a $3 trillion teams and league market and five X it. So things like sports equipment and sports gear, ticketing platforms in stadium hospitality, around stadium real estate developments, in stadium, out of stadium…

01;06;58;20 - 01;06;59;08

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Everything out side of the game.

01;06;59;09 - 01;07;30;03

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Advertising youth sports as a pipeline to professional sports, college sports is now investable talent agencies so so on and so forth. So yes, the teams in the leagues are kind of at the center of the value creation, because those are the ones that create the sticky customer base. They're the ones that create the brand and the IP, and they're the ones that drive the increasing value in the unscripted content that pulls everybody up with them.

01;07;30;07 - 01;07;40;22

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But if all you do is focus on equity investments in teams, you're missing this entire world of of investment that that opens up to you.

01;07;40;23 - 01;07;48;16

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

What is it about this market that there's so much growth behind it, when we don't really have that many different teams than we had 30 or 40 years ago?

01;07;48;23 - 01;08;14;05

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

The underpinning of growth is media rights. That is generally least in the major sports leagues. That is ultimately what is going to drive valuation back to media and entertainment. There's been a transformational shift in the media landscape from wired cable to over-the-top and streaming that's changing the way people are consuming content and the way that people are valuing content.

01;08;14;07 - 01;08;40;11

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

But if you look at the length of the media, deals are getting signed by global sports leagues and the value the underpinnings are there to support continued valuation increase. Just on what we see today. And I actually look at spending patterns and the consumer is actually shifting spending to experiences versus things. And that's sports and that's concerts and that's live events.

01;08;40;18 - 01;09;02;20

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

And so there's something happening there too that's detached from media, that's just behavioral that I think is, you know, fueling some of this. And then look in sports and it's funny because in sports you have people who are anxious about 10 to 15% compound annual growth. There's scarcity value. Right. There's just a limited number. To your point, they don't trade very often.

01;09;02;22 - 01;09;28;08

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

They are in some cases stores of value. Right. Detached from the growth in revenue that comes from media, their stores, a value of the same way that you have gold, silver, crypto where people view it as a store of value, that. So there's something that's happening in team valuations over time too, which is just the scarcity and quality of that asset is also, you know, highly differentiated.

01;09;28;12 - 01;09;44;07

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Mike, thanks for joining us for The Alts Report for a great fun.

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

Thanks. Great fun.

Speaker 1 Michael Gaviser

Really enjoyed having you. I think we all learned a lot. And if folks want more information they can go to Morganstanley.com/alts. Or they can reach out to their financial advisor and certainly lots of different opportunities for education, as you mentioned.

01;09;44;07 - 01;09;45;01

Speaker 2 Michael Arougheti

For sure. Thanks for the support.

 

Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC ("Morgan Stanley Wealth Management") - IMPORTANT DISCLOSURES

 

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management acts as a placement agent in connection with the offering and sale of the securities of the Fund to current and prospective clients of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management will receive cash compensation for its activities as placement agent from the Fund’s manager, as described in Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s point of sale letter, if applicable. In addition, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, its affiliates or employees, may have additional relationships with the Fund’s manager, including as an investor in the Fund or other investment vehicles managed by the Fund’s manager or as a client of the Fund’s manager. The payment of cash compensation to Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, and any additional relationships that Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates may have with the Fund’s manager or other investment vehicles managed by the Fund’s manager, create material conflicts of interest for Morgan Stanley Wealth Management in its role as placement agent.

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice and are not intended to be a forecast of future events or results. Further, opinions expressed herein may differ from the opinions expressed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and/or other businesses/affiliates of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management.

Alternative investments often are speculative and include a high degree of risk. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Alternative investments are appropriate only for eligible, long-term investors who are willing to forgo liquidity and put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time. They may be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Alternative Investments typically have higher fees than traditional investments. Investors should carefully review and consider potential risks before investing.

The sole purpose of this material is to inform, and it in no way is intended to be an offer or solicitation to purchase or sell any security, other investment or service, or to attract any funds or deposits.  Investments mentioned may not be appropriate for all clients. Any product discussed herein may be purchased only after a client has carefully reviewed the offering memorandum and executed the subscription documents. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management has not considered the actual or desired investment objectives, goals, guidelines, or factual circumstances of any investor in any fund(s). Before making any investment, each investor should carefully consider the risks associated with the investment, as discussed in the applicable offering memorandum, and make a determination based upon their own particular circumstances, that the investment is consistent with their investment objectives and risk tolerance.

As a diversified global financial services firm, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management engages in a broad spectrum of activities including financial advisory services, investment management activities, sponsoring and managing private investment funds, engaging in broker-dealer transactions and principal securities, commodities and foreign exchange transactions, research publication, and other activities. In the ordinary course of its business, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management therefore engages in activities where Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s interests may conflict with the interests of its clients, including the private investment funds it manages. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management can give no assurance that conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of its clients or any such fund.

Alternative investments involve complex tax structures, tax inefficient investing, and delays in distributing important tax information. Individual funds have specific risks related to their investment programs that will vary from fund to fund. Clients should consult their own tax and legal advisors as Morgan Stanley Wealth Management does not provide tax or legal advice.

Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a business of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC.

© 2026 Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC. Member SIPC. Alternative investment securities discussed herein are not covered by the protections provided by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, unless such securities are registered under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and are held in a Morgan Stanley Wealth Management Individual Retirement Account.

CRC 5173532 02/2026

 

E1 • January 14, 2026 • 10 mins
Jed Finn, Head of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, hosts Marc Rowan, CEO of Apollo Global Management, to discuss the growing demand and versatility of alternatives, how public and private markets are converging, the private credit landscape and more.

[00:00:18] JED: Welcome to our inaugural episode of The Alts Report. It's a new series where we hear from visionaries and leaders and innovators in the alternative asset management space. And so it's fitting that for our very first episode, we have somebody who is all three of those things. Of course, I'm talking about Marc Rowan, the CEO of Apollo Global Management.

[00:00:39] Marc, thank you very much for being here.

MARC: So, so appreciated and so happy to do it.

JED: Theoretically, we're in your offices, so I should thank you for having me here.

MARC: You are more than welcome.

JED: So maybe the best place to start, maybe mirroring the growth of the firm, you can talk a little bit about what has driven the growth and the demand for Alts.

[00:00:55]  It's gone for something that was more niche, institutionally oriented to something now that ought to be part of everybody's portfolio, our own... Global Investment Committee recommends a 10 to 20% ish allocation depending on your time horizon and your risk tolerance, and obviously the correlations to the other parts of the portfolio.

[00:01:11] But what has been the biggest driver for someone who's been on the front seat of that evolution?

MARC: Number one, it's about fundamentals. These assets can offer excess return per unit of risk, and everyone wants better returns and more stability, particularly long-term investors. But the other thing that we have really seen take place is a total…

[00:01:27] …Change again in this framework of risk and reward. We used to, again, think private was risky and public was safe. And now we know both can be safe and risky. And so what's happened is also been a change in public markets. Public markets were 8,000 companies. We're down to fewer than 4,000 companies. We are gonna be 3,500 companies before we are 4,500 companies again.

[00:01:50] 80% of the economy is now private. 80% of employment is private. Companies are staying private longer. The ability of companies to source debt and equity and everything in between as a private company is increasing and public markets have become increasingly concentrated. 10 stocks are 40% of the S&P.

[00:02:10] Think of the mag seven as being an uber weight of public markets. And so we are now also a source of diversification for all of these groups, and so it does not surprise me to see initial forays into 10 and 20% portfolio allocation, but I do believe over time a private asset will be a competitor for every public asset.

[00:02:33] JED: So that's an interesting perspective. I mean, do you think that the dichotomy between public and privates as it exists today is going to persist? Because in some ways we've seen convergence in the sense of you've got, you know, private credit stepping into where banks were, and on the equity side you've got exchanges.

[00:02:49] Morgan Stanley just bought a private markets exchange particularly to address the growth of private markets. When you've got a lot of the appreciation happening with a very small number of investors, whether it's institutional or high net worth, it leaves a number of people out of that wealth growing pool.

[00:03:06] And whether it's democratization that we're seeing in fund structures on the private side, it feels like it's less, at least to me, binary, public, private, and more of a gradation over time where disclosure and investor access are the two vectors which you trade off, and maybe it's not one or the other, but you know, a set of of different buckets that you could fall in.

[00:03:25] MARC: It's, it's absolutely convergence and convergence in more ways than you've even suggested. So I'll start on the company side. The largest issuers of private investment grade are actually public companies. And so yes, I think you're gonna see increased convergence of public and private. On the product side, I actually think we're going to end up with a bit of a pyramid, and if I look at the top of that pyramid, the top of that pyramid is family office.

[00:03:55] Family offices have gotten so large and so sophisticated that they are just institutions. They will buy, they are capable of discerning public and private, and they will own private assets without regard to convergence. Uh, in fact, most of our family office clients today are already 50% private, which does not mean 50% alternative, it just means 50% private in in their portfolios.

[00:04:21] The next level is the, what I'll call the high net worth or fully advised clients. They will buy both fully private products as well as converged products because they have the sophistication and the advice necessary to be in private markets. I think this will become the norm. Rather than something that is unusual, maybe in fact, the new form of active management is not going to be the buying and selling of stocks and bonds to get excess return versus a market index.

[00:04:50] Maybe the new form of active management is going to be the blend of public and private portfolios to give investors access to the whole economy. And a hundred percent of the economy rather than a narrow slice of the economy in the public markets.

JED: Well, I think that makes a lot of sense, particularly because the top of the pyramid is such a small fraction of the growth of private markets.

[00:05:10] There's $6 trillion in family office assets, and private markets are gonna be $30 trillion over the next several years, and so where's the rest of it going to come from?

MARC: We are in the early innings of investor exposure to private assets, and investors still approach the private markets the way maybe they approached the public markets 20 years ago.

[00:05:30] 20 years ago, people bought individual stocks and bonds in the public markets. Now they buy exposures, they buy indices, they buy other forms of investment. In the private markets, they're still buying stocks and bonds. This Apollo fund, that Apollo fund, and that's fine and that may continue for a number of clients for a long period of time, I do believe they will eventually buy exposures and that…

[00:05:54] You… will form the packages that you need to meet your clients needs.

JED: And we're, and we're already starting to do it, as you know, we have some solutions, particularly for clients who want access, but don't wanna necessarily select all of the individual ways to fill out that sleeve where it's a single ticket, single portfolio, single 1099, for diversified access to a bunch of the asset classes within the private markets space, private credits, private equity, private infrastructure, et cetera.

[00:06:20] MARC: In fact, I view our whole industry as being the beneficiary of technology and packaging. I mean, think back to how long you're doing this or how long I'm doing this. The first iteration of wealth product, we were faxing signature pages back and forth, or FedExing them. The notion that this can now be integrated into your statement that this is electronic, online, everything we need to is in one place in one integrated package...

[00:06:48] …is really partly responsible for the growth of private markets. It's brought down distribution costs, it's simplified structures, it's made your life easier. Portfolio construction also cannot happen without technology. How do you mix and match building blocks without a piece of technology? So the world I envision is one that is more democratized.

[00:07:08] More investors will have access to private markets. The value of advice is going way up. In a world that we live in, which I sometimes joke is a three flavor ice cream world, vanilla, chocolate, and a little strawberry – stocks, bonds and a little bit of private markets… The world we're going to is more like Baskin Robbins.

[00:07:25] There are so many more choices when we democratize that without good advice, without good models, without good portfolios, clients are gonna be lost on the journey. Yes, some family offices will make this transition on their own, but the vast majority of clients are gonna spend way more time with their financial advisor than they ever have…

[00:07:42] …to make sure these choices are the right choices.

JED: So you've been very gracious with your time. I wanna, uh, finish with one last question because it is of the moment right now. Should we be scared right now about the credit dynamics going on and what's your view given how intimately you see what's happening on a day-to-day basis?

[00:08:00] MARC: So I start by saying, no, I, I don't think that's what we're seeing. Um, I think there's good credit and bad credit and there's good bank credit and there's good private markets credit. Uh, this is not a wholesale change, but I think we have to appreciate private credit levered lending for what it is. This is a decision by investors to take less risk and that always, you know, kind of, people look for me to explain that. Investors have a choice.

[00:08:29] They've been in the equity markets and the equity markets over a long period of time have offered high single digit to low double digit rate of return. Equity Markets are incredibly volatile. PEs are very high. That does not mean they won't stay high, but history has not been kind to starting at a high PE.

[00:08:45] They then look at the high yield market. The high yield market is trading at very, very thin spreads. The decision to move out of equity and out of high yield and into levered lending is a risk reduction decision, and investors are making really logical choices. They're basically saying, I can get the equivalent of long-term equity returns side by side with a professional manager.

[00:09:07] And take less risk than being in high yield and being in equity. I think investors should continue to think about levered lending private credit as an alternative to equity and high yield. And I continue to believe in this environment. It is a good alternative to levered. Let that. That's great.

[00:09:23] JED: Yeah, that's great to hear. Marc Rowan, very much appreciate it. For our clients who are listening, if you want to know more about Apollo, about the partnership, about private credit, about Alts, please reach out to your advisor. We are investing incredibly heavily in making sure that we are bringing to bear the most sophisticated solutions that can help you achieve your financial goals as the markets evolved.

[00:09:45] So thank you very much and Marc, thanks for being here.

MARC: Thanks for the time today.

JED: Appreciate it.

 

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