E8 • August 31, 2026 • 9 mins
Private credit has grown into a meaningful part of how companies finance themselves and how investors think about fixed income and the role private credit may play within a diversified portfolio. Brian Holzer sits down with Logan Nicholson, Senior Managing Director and member of the Direct Lending Investment Team at Blue Owl, to discuss the state of the direct lending market, factors that may influence borrower demand for private financing, and considerations for evaluating private credit within a diversified portfolio.
[COLD OPEN]
LOGAN NICHOLSON
Private credit is a term that gets used as a monolith to describe the strategy. It’s not really one strategy. It’s many strategies.
[CUT TO THE ALTS REPORT OPENING SEQUENCE]
00:26
BRIAN HOLZER
Welcome to The Alts Report, where we explore the value of alternative investments and the trends shaping today's markets. Today, I'm pleased to welcome Logan Nicholson, senior managing director and member of the Direct Lending investment team at Blue Owl.
LOWER THIRD:
Brian Holzer
Head of Alternative Investments Sales & Distribution
Morgan Stanley Wealth Management
00:38
Our focus is private credit, an area that has seen significant growth over the last several years and plays an important role in helping to finance our economy. From lending to corporations to financing hard assets such as real estate, we have seen a real structural shift in how borrowers access capital. At the same time, more investors are turning to private credit as a tool to help broaden diversification and provide greater income potential relative to traditional fixed income.
01:03
It's also an asset class that has been in the headlines over the past few months, given elevated redemptions from certain perpetual vehicles, which have been driven by several factors, including concerns about AI's potential impact on software companies, lower base rates, tighter spreads and declining portfolio yields. Today, we'll explore these developments alongside the broader role and outlook for private credit.
01:25
So, Logan, thanks for being with us. Maybe to start, private credit is a fairly broad term, it can include areas like corporate lending, asset-based lending, capital solutions. Help provide a definition in terms of what private credit is and the role that it plays in today's market.
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: What is private credit and what role does it play in today’s market?
01:41
LOGAN NICHOLSON
We're talking about investment grade, some sub-investment grade corporate credit that I would call direct lending and then asset-based strategies, distressed credit. Structured finance.
LOWER THIRDS:
Logan Nicholson
Senior Managing Director & Portfolio Manager
Blue Owl
01:52
And so first, I think you have to define what strategies you're discussing within private credit. We operate in the corporate direct lending market, which is lending directly to sub investment grade. So middle market companies predominantly in the US. Most of those companies are owned by private equity firms. Most of them are backed by institutions, not all of them.
02:10
But that's the market we operate in. And to put this into context, the sub investment grade corporate private credit market, the direct lending market is about a trillion and a half dollars. Put that in context relative to the corporate loan and bond market. So, our public market equivalent. That's about 3, 3.5 trillion. So, we're about half that size.
02:30
That's about half the size of the investment grade corporate market which is over 7 trillion. The investment grade bond market is about half the size of the US residential mortgage market. So, we're talking about a very small pocket of the overall corporate credit universe and overall credit universe within the United States.
And it's a growing one. It's taking share.
02:50
BRIAN HOLZER
So, we believe we've seen a real structural change in terms of how folks access capital. Let's focus on the borrower to start. Given that yields are generally higher in private financing like this versus what maybe they get in other sources of capital, why are borrowers turning to private credit?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: Why are borrowers turning to private credit?
03:10
LOGAN NICHOLSON
People often ask me, you're getting paid a higher interest rate. So, isn't your company a worse company? That's a misperception in our market. It's the same companies. Many times, the same companies that I've financed over and over again in my career, first in public markets and now in private markets.
03:26
There are three important pillars of why they choose private credit. One, it's the partnership. And that may sound softer, but it's real. You know who your lenders are.
You have certainty of financing spread when you go in. If you have a problem later, you can call up that group of three to five to seven lenders.
Second, it cuts out the middleman. It cuts out the broker. There are all sorts of fees associated with arranging financing through a bank. For some companies and borrowers, that's the right way. But others look at it and say, well, those are fees I don't want to spend. And so it's not just the interest rate, the headline rate, it's the underwriting fees, it's the rating agency fees.
04:05
It's the management time for going on multiple road shows. It's being in the public domain, and that costs money. And so, the actual cost differential is much tighter than maybe the headline rate.
And then the last is confidentiality. Those companies don't want their information in the public hands. Many companies just prefer it being private. And again, it's with that relationship group. And customization. Because we're not solving for a structure that's a CLO or a mutual fund, we can customize with your group of partners.
You can keep your structure confidential if it matches your balance sheet. You can set up the financing to grow with you in the future.
04:37
BRIAN HOLZER
And going forward, there's a world where private and public financings coexist to help solve the needs of borrowers.
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: Can companies combine public and private financing?
LOGAN NICHOLSON
Absolutely. As companies grow, they might go back and forth from one to the other, when they're going through a period of transformation or when they're trying to grow the fastest, they might choose one market over the other.
04:55
Public markets are more volatile because they're trading based on both technicals and fundamentals. People could decide to finance in the private markets because the capital is longer duration, it has longer lock ups. And so, there's less volatility in trading because it's a direct buy and hold long duration fund structure. And so, based on costs, based on customization, borrowers can go back and forth and we see it all the time.
05:20
BRIAN HOLZER
So, let's move to portfolio construction. As you were out meeting with institutions, financial advisors, clients, where do you see private credit specifically fitting in asset allocation for clients?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: How can private credit fit into an asset allocation plan?
05:32
LOGAN NICHOLSON
It's a good question. I think most clients have a fixed income allocation, and they have to think about two things. One, do I know what I'm getting into in my fixed income allocation? Am I getting the best return for the risk I'm already taking?
For many clients, you're already taking that risk in that sub investment grade corporate credit market and the private credit version—so direct lending—has outperformed the high yield market and the loan market as a whole by 300 to 400 basis points over a long period of time.
06:02
So are you getting the right return for taking the right risks? And the second part is are you willing to give up a little bit of liquidity. And so, investors need to think about the tradeoff you're getting. But you need to give up a little bit of liquidity because the fund structure allows us to commit to a buy and hold. It allows us to customize.
06:19
But for that we need the capital for a longer period of time. We need to have it in the right mousetrap. And so, you need to put it into a fund, realizing that it's not as liquid as a public fund. That's part of the way it's structured. It's part of the way we can get that potential outsized return.
06:32
BRIAN HOLZER
So last question. In my opening, I touched on a little bit about the growth that private credit has seen, and a number of reasons why, whether that’s bank retrenchment, regulations, but it has also been obviously in the headlines as of late. Can you provide an update on where do the private credit markets as you see it stand today, and then what do you expect going forward over the next few years?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: What is the current state and outlook for the private credit market?
06:57
LOGAN NICHOLSON
Look, today, I think contrary to maybe the perception right now, the private credit market, specifically the direct lending market where we operate at Blue Owl, is a healthy one.
Default rates in the industry, we track them as non-accrual rates. You can look at any index across our market. It's at the low end of the range for the last three years, meaning defaults are at the low end of the range. Defaults in our market are a typical thing, but they're running lower right now than they were a year or two ago.
07:24
So it's a healthy credit market broadly speaking. And borrowers are still choosing private credit. Borrowers are choosing on almost a 3 to 1 ratio.
We have maybe about a third of the sub investment grade corporate credit market today, our estimation. Direct lending is about a trillion and a half dollars versus the public markets that have maybe about $3 trillion. So, we've got about a third of the TAM for our universe, and that's up 5 or 10 points over the last five or so years. We think we can continue to grow that share. The last thing I'd say is that TAM is growing and the size of the company that's remaining private, it's growing.
08:00
It's just tremendous today. The number of companies that are private versus public, it's about triple. You look at the most recent IPOs in the public markets. They're trillion-dollar companies. And so companies have the capital. They have the wherewithal to stay private for much longer. And there's quite a bit of burden that comes with the regulation of being public.
You’re seeing companies need more and more capital because they want to stay private for longer. That trend benefits the corporate lending markets, both the public and private corporate lending markets.
08:28
BRIAN HOLZER
You make a great point. You have less public companies today than you did 20, 25 years ago. Companies are staying private longer than they were historically. So, you do need the capital to help finance those companies if they're going to end up staying private longer.
Logan, that was great, thank you. We appreciate you all joining us for this edition of The Alts Report. To learn more about alternative investments and our platform at Morgan Stanley, please visit morganstanley.com/alts or reach out to your Morgan Stanley financial advisor or private wealth advisor. We look forward to seeing you next time.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
SOURCE INFORMATION
Direct lending has outperformed the high-yield and the loan market over a long period of time: Cliffwater Direct Lending Index, Morningstar LSTA Leveraged Loan Index, ICE BoFA HY Index. Inception date: September 15, 2015. Data as of March 31, 2025.
Borrowers choosing direct lending: PitchBook LCD, Private Credit Monitor, Quarterly LBO Volume: Direct Lending vs. Institutional Leveraged Loans. 1Q 2026.
Private credit market size: Federal Reserve, Financial Stability Report, Box 4.1: “Developments in Private Credit,” Figure A: “Private Credit Market Size and Share of Corporate Debt.” May 2026.
U.S. investment grade corporate bond market size: Federal Reserve, Financial Stability Report, Table 1.1: “Size of Selected Asset Markets.” May 2026.
U.S. residential mortgage market: Federal Reserve, Financial Accounts of the United States (Z.1), Table L.217: Total Mortgages, One-to-Four Family Residential Mortgages Outstanding. June 11, 2026 (data through Q1 2026).
Number of private companies versus public companies: Source: Capital IQ. U.S. public and private operating companies and subsidiaries with annual revenue greater than $100 million. Based on latest available fiscal year data as of June 10, 2026.
Less public companies today than 20-25 years ago: World Bank: Listed domestic companies, total - United States. Data through December 31, 2025.
Companies are staying private longer: Morningstar, “Unicorns and the growth of private markets | Morningstar Indexes,” February 19, 2026.
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Morgan Stanley Wealth Management acts as a placement agent in connection with the offering and sale of the securities of the fund to current and prospective clients of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management will receive cash compensation for its activities as placement agent from the fund’s manager, as described in Morgan Stanley Wealth Management’s point of sale letter, if applicable. In addition, Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, its affiliates or employees, may have additional relationships with the fund’s manager, including as an investor in the fund or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager or as a client of the fund’s manager. The payment of cash compensation to Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, and any additional relationships that Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or its affiliates may have with the fund’s manager or other investment vehicles managed by the fund’s manager, create material conflicts of interest for Morgan Stanley Wealth Management in its role as placement agent.
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Alternative investments often are speculative and include a high degree of risk. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Alternative investments are appropriate only for eligible, long-term investors who are willing to forgo liquidity and put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time. They may be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Alternative Investments typically have higher fees than traditional investments. Investors should carefully review and consider potential risks before investing.
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CRC 5783155 08/26
E7 • July 20, 2026 • 9 mins
Long-term contractual income is one of the defining characteristics of triple net lease investing – but the underlying real estate matters, too. Brian Holzer, Head of Alternative Investments Sales & Distribution, sits down with Lauren Hochfelder, Head of Global Real Assets at Morgan Stanley Investment Management, to discuss characteristics of the strategy and how investors may consider it within a broader portfolio.
VIDEO TRANSCRIPT
[COLD OPEN]
LAUREN HOCHFELDER:
If I asked you, Brian, what are some of the things you want in any investment, be it real estate or otherwise?
I suspect you'd say something like, “Give me contractual cash flow, give me inflation hedging, give me downside protection in these volatile times…
But I don't want to give up my upside…”
[CUT TO THE ALTS REPORT OPENING SEQUENCE]
00:35
INTRODUCTION – BRIAN HOLZER
Welcome to The Alts Report, where we explore the value of alternative investments and the trends shaping today's markets. I'm pleased to welcome Lauren Hochfelder, Head of Global Real Assets at Morgan Stanley Investment Management. Today, Lauren and I will discuss triple net lease investing.
Triple net lease investing is a strategy within real estate that brings together credit like underwriting and real estate investing. So, Lauren, thanks for joining us.
LOWER THIRDS:
Brian Holzer
Head of Alternative Investments Sales & Distribution
Morgan Stanley Wealth Management
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Thank you.
01:00:00
BRIAN HOLZER
To start, can you provide an overview of what triple net lease investing is?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: What is triple net lease investing?
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Sure. So net lease is really just a lease structure. Generally, as a sub asset category it refers to assets that are long-term lease. So think 10, 20 plus years to tenants pursuant to this net lease structure. This is a structure in which the tenant pays the rent and all the expenses. So they pay real estate taxes and insurance and operating expenses. That means that as the asset owner, every dollar you collect in rent flows straight through to the bottom line.
LOWER THIRDS:
Lauren Hochfelder
Head of Global Real Assets
Morgan Stanley Investment Management
01:35
BRIAN HOLZER
Maybe to help bring it to life for our viewers, can you provide an example of a triple net lease transaction?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: What’s an example of a triple net lease transaction?
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Sure. So again, for starters, I would say net lease is just a lease structure. So it can be many different types of real estate. It can be warehouses leased to names like Amazon or Tesla. It can be medical office buildings leased to NYU Langone or Mount Sinai here in New York.
It can be retail assets. It can be robotics facilities. So, it really can be a pretty wide range of assets.
02:06
A classic example would be, we just acquired a large Class-A warehouse leased to a major household name. Immediately adjacent to LAX airport in Los Angeles. We have a 20-year lease.
02:22
It sits on nearly 20 acres of land in an incredibly infill location right next to this major transit hub airport. And one of the last mile facilities that can serve the incredibly dense demographics, in particular in West LA.
So you have the benefit of the long-term income stream. You have the benefit of this piece of land and asset that we think over the long term should appreciate, beyond the contractual rent staffs.
02:50
BRIAN HOLZER
A few things in there. First, mission critical, hard to replace assets. Two, you mentioned the quality of the underlying tenant, and I think that is why folks associate this with credit like underwriting, and then long-term leases, so the ability to model out cash flows pretty well.
03:10
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Yes. That's exactly right. If I asked you, Brian, what are some of the things you want in any investment, be it real estate or otherwise? I suspect you'd say something like, give me contractual cash flow, give me inflation hedging, give me downside protection in these volatile times.
But I don't want to give up my upside. And oh, by the way, if you can throw in some tax efficiency that would be great, too. Well, net lease can provide all of that. And enables you to also play, some of the large megatrends that we think are driving structural demand and return growth over time.
03:47
BRIAN HOLZER
So, let's talk about portfolio construction. As you are out speaking with investors, where do you see this fitting in a portfolio?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: Where does triple net lease investing fit within a portfolio?
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Yeah, it's a really great question because in a sense, net lease is a sort of a hybrid between real estate and a more credit-oriented asset. So, we see investors putting it into either of those categories.
04:10
I'd say, for those who are thinking of it as part of their real estate allocation, they're saying: I get the real estate benefits, but I have the contractual income that can help insulate me from some of the key risks of real estate.
What are the key risks? My revenue can drop, right?
04:27
My rents can go down. I can lose a tenant and have vacancy. And my expenses can spike. I mean, you don't have to be a professional real estate investor to see what's happening with real estate, taxes, insurance, etc.
04:38
And in a net lease asset for at least the duration of that long-term lease, you're generally mitigated from both of those risks because both are contractual.
When we see investors look at it for their credit bucket, again, they're saying: I have this contractual cashflow. Oh, by the way, it's escalating. But yet, I'm not giving up the underlying benefits of hard asset ownership.
05:04
Net lease, again, if you're choosing the right real estate, that mission critical real estate, that real estate that is operationally essential to their business, that is generally perceived as being a lower default risk than owning that same company's unsecured credit.
05:20
BRIAN HOLZER
So, let's close. We touched a little bit on interest rates. Inflation. Right? We are in an environment with elevated interest rates likely higher for longer. What impact do higher interest rates have on real estate broadly, but also triple net lease investing?
ON-SCREEN QUESTION: What impact do higher interest rates have on real estate and triple net lease investing?
05:35
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Yeah. We think it makes it a particularly interesting time to invest in triple net lease because it emphasizes the importance of current return. So if you think about the different ways one can make money in real estate coming out of the GFC, a lot of value, a lot of return was driven by interest rates coming down. Right? You saw cap rate compression, you saw cheap borrowing. We think this time around is different because we do expect rates to stay relatively rangebound at today's elevated levels.
06:05
So that means you have to focus on current cash flow. It also means you need to be in those sectors and markets that benefit most from long-term structural drivers of demand, where you can see the greatest income growth potential. And so, in a net lease, obviously you have contractual, rent steps that are generally in line with and sometimes above inflation.
06:32
But you also need to own the assets. Once that lease rolls, you're in the right market that's benefiting from whether it's, you know, physical AI with robotics or aging demographics, with, some of the medical offices that we invest in. So, you really need to be in those places where the income growth can compensate.
06:57
In terms of the drivers of why we think rates stay elevated, one of them is certainly inflation expectations. And I would say that after, you know, 20 plus years of limited, concern around inflation, investors are rightfully really focused on it today.
So we’re seeing a renewed appreciation for the inflation hedging benefits of real estate. And it's really for two reasons.
07:17
One, you have the direct or indirect flow through to income. So, the top line tends to grow with or above inflation. The second part that I think is a little less well understood is the flow through impact to supply. So in inflationary periods, construction costs rise, supply drops and real estate like everything is just supply and demand.
07:41
And so, when we see supply drop off precipitously, as we're seeing in today's inflationary environment, you see the real potential for asset appreciation, because the cost to rebuild that same asset just went way up. So that inflation hedging we think is key.
08:00
[CLOSING]
BRIAN HOLZER
Lauren, that was great. Thank you for joining us and providing an overview of triple net lease investing.
LAUREN HOCHFELDER
Thank you.
BRIAN HOLZER
We appreciate you all joining us for this edition of The Alts Report. To learn more about Alternative Investments and our platform at Morgan Stanley, please visit morganstanley.com/alts or reach out to your Morgan Stanley Financial Advisor or Private wealth advisor. We look forward to seeing you next time.
END OF TRANSCRIPT
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CRC 5722079 07/26
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Investors are responsible for complying with the terms of any applicable exemption from securities law requirements and any potential Private Company issuer restrictions for any sale of Private Company shares, and you must obtain your own legal counsel to advise you in connection with such requirements and Private Company issuer restrictions. You should consult with your third-party advisors regarding the risks of transacting in Private Company shares, including the risk of transacting in a market with little or no price transparency or liquidity. Morgan Stanley provides no opinion or view on the valuation of any Private Company shares, or the sufficiency, fairness or competitiveness of any price obtained. Private Securities do not trade on any national securities exchange and, as such, any potential liquidity (i.e., the potential for any buying interest that might satisfy your sell interest) in such Private Company shares is very limited.
Investments of this nature include a high degree of risk, likely will be highly illiquid and can engage in leverage and other speculative practices that may increase the volatility and risk of loss. Investors could lose all or a substantial amount of their investment. Investments are appropriate only for eligible investors who are willing to put capital at risk for an indefinite period of time.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Actual results may vary. Diversification does not assure a profit or protect against loss in a declining market.
As a diversified global financial services firm, Morgan Stanley engages in a broad spectrum of activities including financial advisory services, investment management activities, sponsoring and managing private investment funds, engaging in broker-dealer transactions and principal securities, commodities and foreign exchange transactions, research publication, and other activities. In the ordinary course of its business, Morgan Stanley therefore engages in activities where Morgan Stanley interests may conflict with the interests of its clients, including the private investment funds it manages. Morgan Stanley can give no assurance that conflicts of interest will be resolved in favor of its clients or any such fund. All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice and are not intended to be a forecast of future events or results. Further, opinions expressed herein may differ from the opinions expressed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and/or other businesses/affiliates of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management.
This is not a "research report" as defined by FINRA Rule 2241 or a "debt research report" as defined by FINRA Rule 2242 and was not prepared by the Research Departments of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC or Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC or its affiliates. Alternative investments involve complex tax structures, tax inefficient investing, and delays in distributing important tax information. Individual funds have specific risks related to their investment programs that will vary from fund to fund. Clients should consult their own tax and legal advisors as Morgan Stanley Wealth Management does not provide tax or legal advice.
Interests in alternative investment products are only made available pursuant to the terms of the applicable offering memorandum, are distributed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and certain of its affiliates, and (1) are not FDIC-insured, (2) are not deposits or other obligations of Morgan Stanley Wealth Management or any of its affiliates, (3) are not guaranteed by Morgan Stanley Wealth Management and its affiliates, and (4) involve investment risks, including possible loss of principal. Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a registered broker-dealer, not a bank.
Morgan Stanley Wealth Management is a business of Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC.
Real estate investments are subject to special risks, including interest rate and property value fluctuations, as well as risks related to general and economic conditions.
Environmental, Social and Governance (“ESG”) investments in a portfolio may experience performance that is lower or higher than a portfolio not employing such practices. Portfolios with ESG restrictions and strategies as well as ESG investments may not be able to take advantage of the same opportunities or market trends as portfolios where ESG criteria is not applied. There are inconsistent ESG definitions and criteria within the industry, as well as multiple ESG ratings providers that provide ESG ratings of the same subject companies and/or securities that vary among the providers. Certain issuers of investments may have differing and inconsistent views concerning ESG criteria where the ESG claims made in offering documents or other literature may overstate ESG impact. ESG designations are as of the date of this material, and no assurance is provided that the underlying assets have maintained or will maintain and such designation or any stated ESG compliance. As a result, it is difficult to compare ESG investment products or to evaluate an ESG investment product in comparison to one that does not focus on ESG. Investors should also independently consider whether the ESG investment product meets their own ESG objectives or criteria.
There is no assurance that an ESG investing strategy or techniques employed will be successful. Past performance is not a guarantee or a dependable measure of future results.
© 2026 Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC. Member SIPC. Alternative investment securities discussed herein are not covered by the protections provided by the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, unless such securities are registered under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and are held in a Morgan Stanley Wealth Management Individual Retirement Account.
CRC# 5847214 (08/2026)